July 28, 2012

Vegan Views on Abortion, War, Gun Control, and Capital Punishment


I wondered what vegans views were on war, capital punishment, abortion and gun control. Here are various vegans and their points of view on these issues. 

Katia Luto - I am opposed to the death penalty, and thankful to live in a country where it is not practised. I am also opposed to the availability of weapons, guns or whatever - plus I don't support war or the military.  As for abortion - I believe it is a woman's right to choose, she has the right to control her own fertility and make choices that fit her own beliefs and life circumstances. Here in the UK, abortion is readily available on the NHS. Feminists, including myself, campaigned mightily in the 1970's to achieve this, and I celebrate the victory, even though personally my choice was to have my baby.

Flavia LotusBlossom - This is what I wrote on another person's thread today, about gun control: "See the problem I have with allowing citizens to have firearms is that most people cannot be trusted with them, would abuse that privilege, and don't have training in how to handle them. Most people would just freeze in fear with a firearm in their hands, and it would get taken from them, and used against them. Everyone cannot be effectively trained to handle a firearm responsibly - that's a fantasy - and we'd have all sorts of people who can barely be trusted to tie their own shoelaces, running around with firearms, and lots of mayhem ensuing. Also, kids get hold of them all the time, and all sorts of tragedies occur. I don't ever want to be anywhere near any firearm, and hope I never have to be. I couldn't live in a house where one was kept."  I could never be "for" the death penalty, I think that's absolutely crazy, no matter how horrific the crime, no one has the right to decide when another's life ought to end. I don't see how someone could be vegan and say they are "for" the death penalty. Decline to comment on abortion, except to say it's a profoundly sad decision for any girl or woman to have to make, and that way too many men comment on it, when they cannot ever know, or imagine, what it would feel like to be a pregnant woman. It seems that most of the most vociferous "pro-life" people are men, which is also crazy to me. How can they imagine what it's like to have a uterus? They can't.  And most of these people who call themselves "pro-life" sit down to meals of the remains of murdered animals, and wear the furs and skins of murdered animals to these "pro-life" marches. Absolute insanity, and terribly sad.

Charlie Schliebs - Gun laws--since I knew a couple killed in a home invasion, and at least they would have had a chance with a gun, I am clearly for the right to own guns. However, there have to be better controls and registration, and stiff penalties for violating. Gun shows avoid all gun laws, and no one seems to care. Death penalty--used to be all for it, but there are far too many errors made (actually one is too many), so I believe it should not stand. Abortion--hardest one. Absolutely against it personally, but when I was young I knew a teen girl who died getting one when it was illegal, and how do you stop a person who was raped from getting one? So, I take no view on balance, supporting the status quo but hating it. War--Oh, if the US had just taken up the cause in 1939, rather than wait over two years, how many lives would have been saved. That being said, I opposed the Vietnamese Conflict and just about everything since then.

Deb Bechaz - Absolutely NO to death penalty, there are no circumstances that I would ever agree to it. Wars are just too easily justified these days and there always seem to be ulterior motives, so war only in dire circumstances of self defence. Guns absolutely should be controlled, and there are too many variables in the abortion debate, so I will continue to say womans choice and not judge their decision. I suppose it's like everything else, I follow the vegan philosophy of non violence, but there seem to be gray areas everywhere.

Bridget V Smith - Killing is NO GOOD. Death penalty, abortion, war - FORGET IT. Gun control is fine, I don't own a gun, I don't care really....I think it would help but I think the craaazies will just find other ways to have fun, at least here in the USA.

Angie Wright - I am happy guns are not easily available here (UK) and rarely seen. I have only seen plastic toy guns. I am against the death penalty as mistakes can and have been made. I am against abortion unless mother's life is at risk or if baby is very severely handicapped and unlikely to have any sort of life, or if the woman was raped (but she should have been given the morning after pill in case).

B B Hope LaVida - No death penalty. Gun control - when will the US get the message? Generally no to war, but on the other hand, cannot fault my grandparents for having fought Nazis. Conflicted. Definitely no to landmines, nukes, anything that targets civilians. No to arms trade. You're going to get more argument about abortion than the other stuff. I can tell you that for nothing!

Elle Durow - They are all evil.

Melissa Viau - I'm staying out of the abortion argument. Not up to being harassed and verbally attacked today. But I'm against war (except in the case of true self-defense with no alternatives) and the death penalty. I support some form of gun control.

Sharron Woodward - Gun laws - tighten them, tighten them, tighten them. Death penalty - anti- death penalty. Abortion - a woman's right to choose. War - On the fence here.

Kathryn Bulver - GUN LAWS: should be stricter. Extensive background checks and long waiting periods. No carry permits. DEATH PENALTY: that's a tough one. In my opinion, some humans have, through their own actions, given up their right to live since they commited such heinous crimes against other humans and/or animals that they do not deserve to exist. The ideal would be some kind of immediate divine justice (or a completely objective robot, like Gort from "The Day the Earth Stood Still" --oriiginal film--who would dispense justice. ABORTION: I am pro-choice, but wish abortion to be the last choice, after birth control. WAR: the last war that the U.S. has fought in that was justified is World War II.

Amy Lobenthal - Too many people use abortion as birth control, should be a last resort. Why in this day and age birth control is not used properly is beyond me. I personally would not have an abortion, but this is such a personal issue and it is not right for me to judge ANYONE at all. However, I cannot reconcile crying over a rat in a lab yet silently or publicly condone the murder of millions of human fetuses every year because people are too stupid or lazy to get birth control.

Florence Martin - I would like to see all guns banned (including by military) and just not made any more. I am against the death penalty (but prison sentences should be longer and harder, especially for murder and animal cruelty or murder). I cannot see that killing an unborn child can be painless for the baby and I think most women would regret killing their baby. In any case, that baby had the right to life. I am a total pacifist and against all war. These are all interrelated as one cannot be non-violent about some things and not about others. Veganism is non-violence and is a total way of life. It put me off the Olympics when I heard soldiers would be part of the Security. Guns are dangerous, even in the hands of soldiers and police. No guns, no shootings. No soldiers, no wars. No violence, much less suffering, for all species.

Steam India - As a vegan, I dislike guns, to the extent we don't get them in toy versions for our kids. Death penalty may be reserved for the rarest of rare crimes, rest of the convicts should be compulsorily made to do social service type of things or say work as labour in costructing roads, gas pipes, etc. Abortion may be done in rare cases and this only during the extremely initial stage, eg., first few days of conception. War shouldn't be indulged in.

Lesley StoptheDeercull Dove - I was kicked out of one facebook vegan group for being too forthright about being against abortion, but on the Vegans against Abortion group someone has just left because so many of them there support guns! Whatever it is vegans always seem to have a knack of finding something to divide us!

Tasha McCracken - I'm anti all of it!

Amanda Beatty - I have never agreed on the use of any weapon. I often hear people with guns say how they only have one for protection but then surely they wouldn't need one if others didn't have one in the first place. I, myself, wouldn't have an abortion but I know when people choose to that is it a very hard decision to make, most of the time and it isn't my right to judge on that. I find the death penalty a hard one though... I understand the life for a life thing but if I couldn't kill someone that killed someone else then it would be wrong of me to expect someone else to do it. Also I have never wanted anyone dead, it just feels wrong. Those have always been my views even before being vegan. Those are my views anyway.

Vasco Fernandes - against death penalty, in favor of abortion, and guns are very much controlled where I live and I hope it stays like that.

Andrea V Kratz - Abortion: pro choice because a woman should not be forced to have a baby she does not want; especially not after being raped. But I wouldn´t want to have an abortion myself. Against death penalty, gun laws are pretty good here in Germany but when I lived in the USA I was shocked when I heard a commercial "Buy an ATV get a gun for free". I think the U.S. really needs stricter gun laws. There are so many people dying through guns. Instead of "Pro Life" protests demanding to make abortion illegal there should be "Pro Life" protests demanding stricter gun laws.

Lisa Ara Qualls - In a perfect world I would prefer no guns at all, but as long as the government uses them I want the right to have mine. There are some countries where the lack of guns makes life much nicer, and I would like to be able to live that way. I am very, very opposed to the death penalty because prison should be a place to rehabilitate those who can be, and to safely house those who can't be. AND no one has the right to decide when someone else dies. I am in favor of choice, because it is the lesser of the many evils in this constant debate. I wish that people did not get pregant very often, but when they do I would prefer they not kill the baby. Most women who have to face that horrible decision do not take it lightly. I do think that when the baby develops the ability to perceive pain it should take extraordinary circumstances to permit an abortion, but before that, there should be no legal limitations. And most certainly, the law should keep fantasy mythological characters out of the decision!

Diane V Gandee Sorbi - I'm anti-gun, anti-death penalty, and pro-choice.

Arnold TheVegan Freeman - I am in favor of gun control, very much against the death penalty for so many reasons and will leave it at that. I am very much against war, but I do not have all the answers.

Liisa Pulkki Henry - I do think that most of these issues are related to being vegan, though. Non violence and a right to life are pretty fundamental aspects, although even then, there are always shades of gray, in my humble opinion.

Maureen Hurly - There would be a very wide range of responses. I even know vegans who are in favour of the death penalty. Can't lump animal rights people together on other issues, even though most are "liberal" on most issues, there's a big range.

Kortnie Sloat - I really don't like any sort of firearm/weapon - I think they should all be destroyed . . .They are used for violence so nothing good comes from them. War is also pointless . . . I most definitely reject it. Death penalty - I don't think anyone deserves to have their life taken from them . . . there are other options like jail time or community service and things like that.

Diane Freed - No one can truly be "pro-life" and eat dead animals!!!

Alex Strain - I am Pro-Choice but also Pro-Education and Pro-programs like Planned Parenthood. I think with greater access to care and education we could lessen the incidents of abortion, but Pro-Lifers in this country seem intent on pushing abstinence. It's unrealistic and does not help those who were raped seeking an abortion. I am opposed to the death penalty because if murder is a crime then it's hypocritical of the state to do it. Also, it is not worth it as long as innocent people are put to death. I think there should be restrictions when owning guns and certain fire arms should be banned. No one needs an assault rifle.

Zarby Frupnic - The gun laws don't exist to inspire killing; they exist to encourage protection. Laws or no laws, criminals will have guns. You will stand a better chance not being a sitting duck. The government has far too much power, and the second amendment exists for us to ensure we will have equal footing, to keep the government in check. We do not have equal footing. I'm against the death penalty and against abortion as well. No human being has the right to determine the fate of another human being, regardless of their crimes. And if we didn't have so much excessive legislation and the government breathing down our necks, maybe there would be less crime, no? That being said, I'm also against war. The only reason war exists is to make money. Re: "eye for an eye," war, abortion, and "assisted suicide:" please remember that all of these scenarios are choices determined by human beings. Therefore, you might have this pie in the sky idea in your head that the justice system is 100% fair and that war is an unnecessary evil, or that assisted suicide helps ease the suffering. Well what about those situations where the justice system screwed up, someone framed someone, war is waged on false pretenses, or the person getting 'assisted' doesn't actually want to die, but can't say it? Maybe they have a lot of cash to leave behind? All I'm saying is that humans should not be INVOLVED in the choice of life vs death. It's conceited to think that we have a RIGHT to control these things. And remember that guns are an inanimate object. The intent comes from the owner, not the object. Guns can be used as a defense as much as they can be used as an offense. You may think this contradicts the 'anti-choice' belief, but it's self-defense/survival.

Hayley Evans - Many people in the US seem to be pissy about sex education being taught in schools. If one third of pregnancies are unintended, maybe that's something they need to look into and understand that sex education is not sex promotion. Here in Australia there are time length cut off points and people generally would not be showing (certainly not enough for anyone to notice) prior to having a 'procedure'. I'm totally pro choice. I don't think people using it over and over in place of contraception it is a big problem here.

20 comments:

Sarah said...

I can't believe how ill-informed many of these people are. As a person who has volunteered in clinics and has volunteered to defend clinics where women CHOOSE to terminate, most of your readers are obviously CLUELESS to the reality of birth control and who gets abortions. Most of the woman who come into clinics are poor and do not have access to healthcare, they do not have access to birth control like many of your privileged readers seem to have. Also, men really need to stop having an opinion on this. We are TIRED of men making rules about women's healthcare. I don't care WHAT the circumstances are abortion on demand and without questions. Oh and by the way, the majority of people in the clinics don't use abortion as a last resort. These are "sluts" or whatever you want to call them. Most of the woman who came in were married and already had multiple children. Nothing says, "I can't have this baby" like poverty. Until there is more equality in the world and ALL woman in the world have access to woman care abortion needs to be legal and safe.

Vegan Poet - go by the name of "Butterflies" said...

Sarah - if you are a vegan and give me your full name, I will gladly post your formal comment.

Anonymous said...

Sarah, I'm not addressing the circumstance of rape, but if these people don't have access to contraception, the logical thing would be to

Not. Have. Sex.

It is NOT a necessity. Anyone who is old enough to have sex knows that it will lead to a possible pregnancy. This is not rocket science. I am totally for abortion; it is less irresponsible than bringing yet another child into this world, especially if the parents cannot provide adequate care or resources, but I don't buy this thing that people MUST have their (unprotected) three minutes of pleasure, even if it results in the pain of the fetus during the abortion process.

Still, the onus (again, excluding rape) is on the parents to ensure that they do not conceive. If they cannot afford adequate contraception, than they should not be taking these risks. At All.

So I am pro-choice, but when used in place of taking the initial responsibility not to conceive, I do see it as barbaric. However, it is still a million times better than that child growing up in a home who can't afford or doesn't want her/him.

Anonymous said...

Sarah, I also find it baffling how many of these women seem to have no access to birth control. Is this a third world country? Can't condoms be obtained for free, and aren't there are other birth control methods available, even to poor women?
I think most grown women have at least a general idea of when they are "mid cycle," or close to their fertile period, if they have been menstruating for many years, and if, as you say, they have multiple children. They would have some rudimentary understanding of how their own bodies cycle through fertile and infertile times.
Couldn't they make a little more effort to avoid their husbands and boyfriends during their most fertile week of the month?
Can they not use their imagination a little, and do everything BUT have sexual intercourse? I just find it difficult to understand how they can become pregnant multiple times, as though they have absolutely no control over their own bodies. Are most of these women slaves to the men they live with? If they are married to men who refuse to wear condoms, and despite their extreme poverty keep willfully impregnating their wives and girlfriends, you are saying essentially that most of these women are victims of having pregnancies forced on them.

Renard Moreau said...

[ Smiles ] Thanks for positing another impressive article.

Brenda said...

Abortion,
I am 100% against abortion. Aside from my religious standpoint, as Vegans we all should be against abortion because it is exactly what we fight so hard against…the killing of an innocent being. I’ve seen pictures of unborn calves, dead when they were cut from the mother in slaughterhouse and this outraged all vegans. Abortion is the cutting out and killing of a human mother so all vegans should be outraged at it as well. We are all animals and we should be against violence against all living creatures.

War,
For me, this one is a little more complicated. I am against war. I wish no one ever had to go to war, but I’m realistic in knowing there will always be war. Therefore I’m not against the military. I think we need the military to protect us against both outside and inside threats. I agree with stopping terrorism such as the attack on the Twin Towers on 9/11 but I don’t agree with going to another country and getting involved with things that are non of our business

Gun Control,
I am against gun control because I’ve seen and read about other countries who have taken away the guns from the citizens and in every case it has resulted in criminals controlling everything. Criminals will always be able to get guns and the citizens need a way to defend themselves. In countries like Switzerland, all the citizens are issued a guns and/or automatic weapons and they have the lowest crime rate. The statistics are clear to me.

Capitol Punishment,
I’m against capitol punishment but I’ve never had to deal with any of my loved one’s being murdered. Who can really say how they would feel if they’ve never had to be in that situation. But I personally couldn’t kill anyone so I have no right asking the state or anyone else to do it for me.

Greenconsciousness said...

Abortion should be a sacrament -- Overpopulation is one of the root causes of suffering and the earth's degradation -- everything related to reducing population should be celebrated and encouraged in humans and in animals until a fair and equitable balance is achieved.

People without the means to defend them selves quickly become slaves to their government. Battered and abused women and their friends should be trained and armed. Women who have to travel alone should be armed. Things which are no problem to the middle class which can buy security are a big problem for the poor.

Vegan people who desire the end of suffering for animals should refuse to become victims as an example to others.

Read the Blog Green Is the New Red -- FBI agents are raiding the homes of activists with warrants allowing them to search and seize "anarchist" literature. This govt is rapidly becoming a police state.

REC said...

Word to Brenda. I agree with your view on every topic. I think being vegan and pro-choice is a contradiction. If you see no problem with killing your own innocent child then maybe you should re-think why you became vegan in the first place. What happened to cruelty-free? What happened to compassion? War is a necessary evil, gun control is unconstitutional, and capitol punishment is still murder.

xcaucasus said...

thanks for putting this together – it's an extremely interesting collection of views. There are many thoughtful and constructive comments, even though the topic obviously is a sensitive one.

I would think that the logically consistent point of view is to emphasize birth control, including a very strong responsibility of men for birth control. This minimizes harm, on all levels. How best to do this is partially an empirical question, where we can learn from successful practices.

Beyond that, positions don't have to be entirely black and white. In my view, it's consistent to be vegan AND to believe that abortion should be available (but that its use should be minimized).

Anonymous said...

How is it possible to care so deeply about animal life that you would refuse to even drink it's milk because it's inhumane....yet killing a human being is an ok choice to make? I would LOVE for someone to explain this to me.

M. "Butterflies" Katz (go by the name Butterflies said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
M. "Butterflies" Katz (go by the name Butterflies said...

To the last anonymous comment:

From my point of view, and I think many others, a fetus at a very early stage is not yet a human, (the potential to be a human) so you are not killing a human. A cow, a pig, a chicken already born - is born and living and fully conscious and feeling. I don't think that is true of a 1 month undeveloped fetus. I could be wrong, but that is how I see it. Furthermore, the last thing our life-sustaining support system needs is MORE PEOPLE!!!! We should stop bringing so many humans to suck from Earth's dwindling resources. Why bring a child to a world where it is socially acceptable to be violent and cruel to other feeling animals? Why bring a child to a planet that Nobel Prize winning scientists say we might not even be here in 100 years? These are important questions and therefore I am for a women's choice of whether she wants to give birth.

Anonymous said...

It baffles my mind how anyone vegan could be pro-choice.

The discussion is always around a woman's right to choose. But didn't she already choose to engage in intercourse and therefore have the pregnancy? So we are really talking about a woman's second right to choose.

If someone believes in a woman's right to choose, then they also believe that she has sole responsibility for that child. In that case, if she chooses to have the child she should be completely responsible for child support. How is it that the father may want to have the child, but she is allowed to abort it unilaterally and if she has the child, then he must pay child support? If she has total responsibility in aborting it, she must also take total responsibility for financial support if she has a baby.

This is very warped thinking and it is clear that both parents should have equal choice and responsibility in whether to have the child and in financial support.

This is aside from the point that why is it not okay to eat eggs but it's okay to kill babies? A one-month fetus already has a developing heart, nervous system, etc.

The real root of the issue is that no one wants to take responsibility for anything. Most people don't take responsibility for their health, don't take responsibility for their finances, don't take responsibility for their sexual activity, and then they want to have abortions and have other people pay for the consequences of the choices they made. If people took responsibility for their lives, the world would be a very different place. To believe that women are never going to be able to take responsibility for the choices that they made, and therefore to believe that they will always need abortions, is incredibly demeaning to women.

What's the argument for abortion other than it's convenient and part of the fast-food mentality that is so prevalent today? There are many possible solutions to overpopulation and we need not be so pessimistic. I suppose one could make the argument in the case of rape, but I am never going to have an abortion. In 100 years I think people will look back to this point in history and see humans as barbarians.

M. "Butterflies" Katz (go by the name Butterflies said...

To the last anonymous responder:

Accidents can occur while using birth control. Some vegans think this world is unfit to bring humans to it. I personally am a voice for not breeding any animals; human or nonhuman. The planet is dying! The planet does not have the resources for 7 billion and growing human inhabitants. Nobel Laureate prize winning scientists say there won't be a planet or a human race in less than 100 years because of global warming. Why on Earth would I bring a human to this speciesist, violent, and environmentally-ailing planet?

Humans are barbarians, we can agree on that. They murder right and left without a second thought. It is socially accepted to torture and murder fellow sentient (already living and feeling and fully conscious) beings.

I have never heard that a fetus is developed at one month. But how about if a woman gets an abortion before the one month...very early...before the fetus is developed....

I am not humancentric. I don't think humans matter more than other animals when it comes to violently assaulting them. A one month fetus is not a fully conscious being. You don't have to have an abortion if you think it is wrong and many agree with you. But for a woman who simply does not want a child and something went wrong with her birth control (it happens) - she should have that right not to unwillingly have a child. Plus, and most importantly, the last thing our planet needs is more people.

Natasha Vermeer said...

Personally I'm tired of people trying to draw a correlation between abortion and veganism. One can be a pro-life vegan and one can be a pro-choice vegan. Personally, I think abortion is abhorrent (as it destroys a living being) and I would never have one because it violates my code of non-violence. Well, according to a few vegans on this issue, I'm the worst possible person because I think abortion is wrong. Somehow my compassion for all life is inconsistent with the vegan ideals of "bodily autonomy" (maybe that's why YOU went vegan, but not I.)

In the same breath, I don't know what the answer to abortion is. Do I think it should be made illegal? I'm on the fence with that one, same like I am on the fence about making meat-eating illegal. I am 100% for birth control, including teaching it in schools, and I see countries like Sweden, with very low abortion rates, that teach birth control almost everywhere, as a model to emulate.

As for war, I am almost always opposed. In fact, I cannot think of a time when war may be justified. ESPECIALLY the imperialist wars that the West seems to love to wage lately. I am an anti-war activist, and that is never going to change. Most wars initiated today are for corporate greed and Western homogeny.

As for guns, I would like to see the abolition of guns, but at the same time, if the government and police can have guns, why not the common populace? If you're even remotely aware of what our governments and police forces are doing, you'd probably want to own a gun yourself.

Capital punishment? 100% against, no matter what.

Anyway, nice blog! Now sure how I found it, but I enjoyed reading it. Thanks. :)

-Natasha

Anonymous said...

War: the circumstances leading up to war are incredibly complex. Of course peacemaking is more preferable, but achieving that in practice is difficult, if not impossible. In many situations peace will only delay war. Perhaps there is an argument that we should 'give war a chance'?

Guns: Only bears importance as a symbol against government oppression. This does not need to be communicated with weapons. They cause more harm than good.

Capital punishment: Capital punishment is a primitive response to a grave wrong. It exacerbates our retributive instincts which we should rise above.

Abortion: This is the hardest of all the questions. Firstly, I believe that women should have a choice until the fetus is judged to be sentient, sentience should be judged as early as feasibly possible so we err on the side of caution. I'm not sure exactly when that is, but I have heard stories of movement at 12 weeks.
After the baby is sentient we must balance the right of the life of the fetus with the right of the mother to bodily integrity. Personally, I think the moral thing to do is to not kill, but this gives a very high moral standard which we can't expect people to achieve, particularly in situations of rape, health concerns etc.

Anonymous said...

How can someone say they appose violence against innocent animals, yet approve violence against an innocent baby human?

To justify it in terms of sentience is like a rapist or murderer of new born babies or elderly people with dementia or disability children and adults, justifying that the baby or disability person does not have all the levels of sentience to be "alive" or know pain or pleasure as "normal" people do.

This is same reason most people choose to ignore sentiment about slaughtering animals for food. For they see them as not like humans and not experiencing life and feelings like humans.

Most medical abortions happen in first trimester, but between 1/3 or 1/4 do happen in second or even third trimester. It is a horrific process of tearing limbs off and squeezing the head between forecepts to destroy a living, heart beating foetus (baby). There is absolutely no doubts the little human experiences reactions from this.

A foetus in first trimester is already begun life with emotion and nutrition from the mother. It is well documented how stress affects the development of a foetus. In fact, quite often stress can bring on a natural abortion before first trimester.

That being said, the original approval for abortion was for medical reasons. That being that having the pregnancy was going to threaten the life of the mother. Well that is now, determined that all pregnancy could threaten life of mother, so any pregnant mother can get abortion in country/state where approved.

I am actually supportive of right to choice. However, I feel it is now so fully abused. I know personally of few women that had abortions, just for revenge.

Anonymous said...

Why do all the vegans assume that guns are ONLY used for evil? Criminals are called criminals for a reason, they don't care if it is illegal to have guns. All you want to is take away the right for innocent people to defend themselves from criminals. I would much rather have a gun to defend myself than a god damned phone! Sure, you might be saving peoples lives by banning guns . . . but not the right peoples lives! No one ever wants to consider the fact that guns are plain old fun either. It's a great way to teach responsibility to a kid too.

P.S. Please realize that a true assault rifle is:
1. Hard to get
2. Requires a lot of paperwork
3. Extremely expensive, like $20,000 dollars expensive.
Get that liberal media term out of y'all heads. The "AR" in "AR-15", (a.k.a. the scary black rifle that scares liberals by just the mere thought of it), does NOT stand for "Assault Rifle", instead it stands for "Armalite Rifle".

Anonymous said...

Is a fetus a sentient being ?

Jami's a Wahm said...

Will protect a fertilized chicken egg , not a human one makes you a Hypocrite.